Interesting turns as the Senate's version of the Health Care Re-Form has gone public.
For one, Nebraska's Senior Senator, E. Ben Nelson said that the abortion language is not up to snuff:
"I think you need to have it eminently clear that no dollars that are federal tax dollars, directly or indirectly, are used to pay for abortions and it needs to be totally clear. [It’s] not clear enough, I don’t think."So, does that mean that Nelson would not vote for cloture -- i.e. not let it proceed for debate or an up or down vote?
Remember when Nelson said:
"Faced with a decision about whether or not to move a bill that is bad, I won't vote to move it," he added. "For sure."Of course, then Nelson seemed to blink after Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid's threat to take the vote to reconciliation -- where it only needs 51 votes, instead of the filibuster breaking 60. (Though many have said that there aren't a majority of Dems that are willing to go this route anyway...)
Nelson talked of trying to (Hey Jude!) take bad bill and make it better by advancing it to the floor for amendments.
So where does Nelson officially stand now -- seeing as the Dems need his vote to get past a likely GOP filibuster?
Don't know.
So where does Nelson officially stand now -- seeing as the Dems need his vote to get past a likely GOP filibuster?
Don't know.
**UPDATE 3:40PM**
Sen. Reid is now saying that HE WON'T use reconciliation if cloture is not invoked. So...will that encourage Nelson to vote against cloture???
***
But... Nebraska's Junior Senator, Mike Johanns is trying to bend Nelson his way, pretty much calling him out:
***
But... Nebraska's Junior Senator, Mike Johanns is trying to bend Nelson his way, pretty much calling him out:
"We don't need 40 Democrats to stand up for what's right. We need just one. if just one pro-life Democrat would say i will not vote to move this bill until it's fixed, until it's truly pro-life, that would happen. So those who say they are pro-life but refuse to take that stand, I worry are not standing up for life."In case there was any confusion:
Johanns issued a challenge that surely had his senior colleague from his home state, Dem Sen Ben Nelson, in mind, saying that merely voting to proceed just to try to change the bill was unacceptable.And Nelson's response? Seems to be throwing right back to MJ. Though he still seems to think amendments after a cloture vote are the way to go, saying:
Republicans who oppose abortion rights also have an obligation to offer solutions, not just criticisms, of the relevant language in Reid's healthcare bill, Nelson said.
"The folks on the other side of the aisle who seem to have an interest in the language, you know, maybe they ought to be coming forward with some amendment, as well," Nelson said.Is there any love lost between these two former Governors?
Not sure.
But there sure are a lot of thumbs waving around trying to stick the other guy's eye.
**Update**
Here's MJ on the floor (a minute and a half long vid):
***
And we thought about asking Senator Nelson ourselves what he will do about the cloture vote.
But well, it doesn't look like Nelson is talking...to OUR type anyway...
That's OK. We know that The Benator reads L. St., even if he wouldn't talk to us...
***
Here is a link to the bill itself in .pdf form.
For this issue, search the word "abortion" in your .pdf viewer.
If you're old school, start on page 116 of the 2074 page bill.
Posts
139 comments:
Okay, a sizeable number of people don't want abortion rights covered in the healthcare bill. I get that. What I DON'T get and wish someone would explain to me is what are they going to do about the women who end up having to have a D&C for a miscarriage, but then that horrible, tragic event isn't covered under their insurance because it was coded as an abortion in their records. Yes, this happens all the time. Wording is everything. How is it fair to a young woman who just lost her baby under unfortunate, horrible, tragic circumstances, to then see her face when she opens her bill a month or two later showing that her "abortion" isn't covered and she is now responsible to pay that entire cost. Yeah, that's really a "Christian" way of helping her.
Only problem is what you are talking about is a different CPT code. The CPT codes for a spontaneous abortion (miscarriage) with surgican completion (D&C) would be covered. If a doctor is reporting the wrong CPT codes to the insurance company then that is on them to fix and could be rebilled to the insurance company. Nice try though at making up facts.
Can you direct me to a page in the bill that shows this?
I won't vote for Ben in 2012 if he lets this bill go to the floor!!!
Here is a link to the bill.
For this issue, search the word "abortion" in your .pdf viewer.
If you're old school, start on page 116 of the 2074 page bill.
Anonymous 4:21 assuming your the first poster you don't need to see where it is in the bill, you need to look in the CPT coding books that doctors use to bill patients and insurance to understand the difference. There are CPT codes for what you mentioned and CPT codes for abortion that are different. If a doctor bills the wrong CPT code and doesn't fix it, it is insurance fraud and that's when the FBI shows up at your office.
The fact of the matter is that even in a Catholic hospital you can have a D&C after a miscarriage or an abortion to save the life of the mother. These will be covered under even the Stupak Amendment.
Just one quick question ... what is it about an honest debate on the Senate floor that you Republicans FEAR so much? Are you that certain that your arguments won't hold water that you don't want to have to even make them? This isn't the war on drugs ... Just Say NO! isn't going to hack it.
Personally, I wish the Senate would just chuck the whole filibuster rule out the window. It is contrary to everything I understand about democracy. Then you've got Sen. Ben who has stated that even 60 votes aren't enough to satisfy him. Geez! As my old friend Vince Powers always tells me, 50%+1 ... you get that and you get your way.
BTO,
We are not afraid of the debate, we are winning the debate, but you knew that.
I note that the vote to take up the bill on Saturday is scheduled to be during the first quarter of the KSU game. Seems to me Ben has an excuse not to be present that hardly anyone in Nebraska will fault him for.
I mean, c'mon, folks, 1/6 of the nation's economy, or all the marbles in the Big 12 North. Let's have a sense of proportion here. The uninsured will still be here next year :-)
Where did Vince Powers learn that... in civics class? Ben Nelson is the only dem in who knows how long to win a statewide race in Nebraska. I don't think I'd be taking electoral advice from anybody from the NDP.
BTO KNOWS -
that a vote for debate inevitably results in the passage of this legislation.
But the Dems and their marketeers have been trying to keep this lil fact from the public.
BENNY BOY KNOWS -
that Nebraskans are clever folk and will hold his feet to the fire in 2012.
Though, I called his official office today and an intern (I'm assuming) told me he'd vote 'yes' on Saturday. I'm hoping this is bad communication el Senatoro's office.
They just don't get it...we want no part...hide nor hair of Nanny Government Healthcare...they haven't made Medidaid or Medicare work so how do they think Obamacare will? It's a lame excuse when they say they will pass it and tweak it along the way...they haven't done it with the predecessors.
Senator Nelson...As Nancy Reagan would say..."Just Say No!" and save us and our grandchildren and pull us out of this hellbent tailspin dive into debt.
This conversation grows weary. Bottom line, those in favor of the bill aren't the ones who pay for it. The ones against it are unable to set aside their differences long enough to deep six it. So everybody just suck it up and take it.
The Republic is pretty much lost. Go find a cozy spot and watch the place burn down. The people have decided to vote the treasury and have forsaken any semblance of reason.
Sure tax those who produce to pay for services for those who don't. Just like the Romans did. Didn't work out to well for them if my public education serves me.
One day when you are talking with those who follow after us, that is if you speak the new lanquage, you can regale them with the tales of how it used to be. How you could determine your own future and provide for your family. How you could keep 70% of your income that you worked for.
Hey you all wanted this great experiment. Now it slips away and you don't even know it. Yes you all. The Democrates who are in love with the POTUS and the Republicans who fight amongst themselves. And even the "independents", who voted this administration in.
Enjoying the fiddle music I hope.
resigned
I think Nelson's in a bad spot. Lieberman is going to save us by not voting for cloture. Nelson may therefore be tempted to vote for cloture to satisfy what's left of his base. He might want, however, to note that Republicans and independents are four-square against Obamacare. In Nebraska, that's 2/3 of the voters. If he votes for cloture, he might as well fold up his re-election plans. If he thinks he can take the support of Republicans and independents for granted, he's sorely mistaken.
Medicaid and Medicare don't work? Since when?
Whatever happened to all the screaming about an up or down vote that Republicans did for years? And what about all you who loved it when Nelson sided with Republicans to allow for a bill to move forward with debate? I guess a Senator staying consistant and the idea of an up or down vote should only be called for when republicans are in power.
Put down the cup of hypocrisy, stop your whining, suck it up and deal with it.
Fatherless child 8:29: Yeah right. Keep repeating that and you'll start to believe it ... oops, too late!
RWP: Given Ben's track record, he'll be rooting for KSU.
Blah, Blah, Blah: Civics is a class that you evidently skipped in favor of basket weaving ... not that there's anything wrong with that. And Ben has pissed off enough Democrats on this go round that I think he's lost his mojo. He may as well go ahead and show his true colors, whatever they may be.
Mrs. Smith: Every American should know more about how our government works, but too many are up to their brain stems in Faux News, losing whatever reasoning capacity they may have once had.
1/3rd: The majority of Americans want it. The majority of Nebraskans want it. Just because YOU don't want it doesn't mean we have to do without it.
resigned: You've gotta take a deep breath, put down the fiction novels, and live in the real world for a while. Give up on the conspiracy theory crap.
What's with Fahleson's Tweeting that he's running for Nebraska's 31st Congressional District? That is a very lame joke.
Along with the thumbs in the eyes, dont forget the knives in each others backs.
When are the Republicans going to stop all the federal money going for abortions through employee salaries and contractor salaries. The government should be able to say that if you receive a government salary that you can not use that money for an abortion.
Congressman Terry missed the Oklahoma game so he could squarely vote against the Pelosi Healthcare Debacle.
Senator Nelson will be in Washington during the Kansas State game so he will miss Nebraskans telling him what they want him to do as their Senator.
I am sure that the Senator is right where he wants to be trying to leverage what is left of his sittin' on the fence power.
It sucks to have to make those tough decisions, doesn't it Senator?
So, Ms. McGill gets a Chairmanship?
HMMM, I guess that means that experience and seniority are still extremely important in an elected body regardless which Party holds the Majority.
Anon 545, Only a Democrat would say what you just did.
Republicans believe that the individual is a better decider of what to do with their hard earned (and even the "not so hard earned) cash. Republican's also believe that their hard earned cash that they non voluntarily give to the Federal Government should be used wisely. Paying for a poor person's abortion is not a wise use of public dollars.
But, hey, if you want to stand outside Planned Parenthood in Lincoln or Carhart's Mill of Death in Bellevue and offer to fork over your own cash to pay for abortions on demand, then what's stopping you?
When it is my money, I get to choose what should be bought with it. When it is your money, do what you want.
This is a lesson that my kids had to learn, they didn't like it, but they had to learn it.
The Benator will vote for cloture knowing full well that almost ensures passage of Reid's bill without any significant amendments. I'm sure he's telling his buds in the health insurance biz that the requirement that everyone buy health insurance will be a huge windfall for their companies which will allow them to cashout before the public option kicks in later to kill their business. It looks to me like the Benator has also decided this is his last term in the Senate...and he's more than old/rich enough to retire to his turkey farm. BTW since hell is still frozen over, what do people expect? Elections have consequences.
Medicaid and Medicare don't work? Since when?
The Medicare program is so underfunded it has to be propped up annually with a budget busting special appropriation. Medicaid is draining the states dry. Both programs are bottomless money pits.
A6.17: Thanks to term limits, there are hardly any state senators with "experience." What did you expect would happen when you voted for that?
A6.25: Paying for a poor person's abortion is not a wise use of public dollars.
Honestly, I'll admit that I am being a sarcastic ass here, but I would think that Republicans (the only ones with fiscal responsibility in this nation according to themselves) would WELCOME paying poor folks to have abortions. The alternative is that they'll pay a whole lot more to support, from cradle to grave, in increased welfare and social costs for the child born into a poor family.
GeosUser: Dang! It sure is getting cold down here!
BTO, I didn't vote for term limits and never will.
With term limits, all the decision making gets done by the committee staff since they are the only ones that have been around long enough to 1) know what the Hell they are doing 2) know how to put lipstick on it for the voters and 3) never get fired by the voters for the choices they make.
The voters should always be the Boss that matters most. And to the Anon that posted "Elections have consequences.", has that ever rung more true than with the Democrat strangle hold that the Dems have on all levels of the Federal Government today.
I sit amazed at their desire to push the Liberal Limits as far as they are and I can't figure out if they truly think they have a mandate for this spending or if they know they are about to lose their Bank of Geitner Mastercard and want to make sure that they get as much of their agenda bought and unpaid for before their credit limit gets cut off.
Pelosi can say "Bye, Bye", to the Speakers Chair and "Hello", to the timeout chair in the corner. The good news is that there is a long history of former Speakers resigning, rather than staying in office upon defeat.
Now if that's not a good enough reason for the American people to toss out the Dem majority, then I don't know what is!
BTO - yes, you and your party DO NOT want the public to know how government works. And need I remind you, your administration just added how many new Nebraska congressional districts?
(I'm guessing you think my MA in PoliSci (as useless as I think it is) doesn't qualify me to comment on these matters.)
Quit being an elitist.
Bringing abortion into the health care debate was nothing but a tactic to further divide public opinion. I'm not saying it's not a topic worth debating but it's being used purely for political reasons.
Regardless of which side of the debate you are on, it is despicable to use it as a tool to sway votes.
The Democrats brought abortion into the debate by trying to "allow" the HHS Director to permit it in one of the plans. To allege that Federal Dollars can be kept separate from private dollars when they will all be lumped together for payment when the subsidies are dumped in, is ridiculous.
If the HHS Director was not SOOOOOO openly proabortion in her record from Kansas, perhaps the Prolife community would not have jumped to the federal funding conclusion.
Democrats are wedging this issue this time-NOT REPUBLICANS, Marc with a "c". Just like they fought Republicans on the Doc's Reimbursement fix a few years ago, but put a bunch of crap into a multi billion dollar fix yesterday just so they could get Republicans to vote against a Doc Fix after they voted on 11/7 to screw the local Docs in the Healthcare Bill.
This time, the Dems will pay for it with their seats. You can't keep taking away from hardworking Americans to give to "others" that have made less than stellar choices and expect to get rewarded for it.
Marc, you are exactly right. The Democrats put mandadtory funding of abortions by everyone who is in the public plan into Obamacare as a way to get the moon-bat liberal members of their party to vote for it. It is appalling that the Democrats are using this as a tool to divide people.
It seems McGill won the Unicameral beauty contest!
McGill is just not seen as Liberal as Heath Mello. She has a bright future.
Maybe she runs for EBen's seat in 12?
A9.16: I agree that voters should be tje Boss; unfortunately they are often ill informed, being distracted by "important" matters such as American Idol, Husker football, etc. Democrats push liberal agendas, Republicans push conservative agendas, nothing new there, this last go 'round the Dems won, so what's your point?
Mrs.S: Please quit pegging my B.S. meter. As for "new" CDs, your NEGOP Chair says he's running for one of them. Go figure. As for your MA in PoliSci, who knew? I am not a clairvoyant. I haven't a clue who you really are. Why don't you introduce yourself, maybe get a Blogger page of your own and put something on there about yourself.
McD: And Republicans have NEVER added anything to legislation to get THEIR moonbats in line, right? Tell me, why didn't the Republican party do anything about the abortion issue when they held all three branches of government? Hmmmm?
So Ben, Mary Landrieu got $100 million for Louisiana, what did we or YOU get???? Coward!!!!
How many women will die of Breast and Cervical Cancer because of Ben Nelson???
Isn't Ben Nelson Pro-life? Why would he let the Reid-Pelosi abortion provisions get to the floor??
I have been reading the bill. Nothing special for Nebraska in their but more taxes, so what is E. Ben getting from Reid???
I see Jon Brunning kicking Ben's butt in 2012 after this vote.
Moonbats? BTO you make some very good points today.
BTO: The Republicans restored several prohibitions on abortion that Clinton struck down his very first day in office. They also passed the partial birth abortion ban. That was in 2003. You may want to try gingko biloba. I'm sure you would have wished that they continued to spend all their time trying to ban abortion, but as the Democrats found out when they tried to end the war in Iraq when they took over in 2007, eventually you have to spend time on other issues.
Where is Nebraska Right to Life on this??? Julie hold a press conference!!!!!! BEN NELSON needs to know how we at home feel.
MacPappy said, ... eventually you have to spend time on other issues.
So are you admitting that abortion really isn't that big of an issue for Republicans? I understand ... it is just a very convenient button to be pushed during campaign season, something to keep the base occupied with so that they don't have to actually think.
Sorry BTO but your junior high school debate tactics have no effect on me. I was just rebutting your contention that republicans did nothing about abortion between 2000 and 2006.
I never thought I'd see the day Ben Nelson would leave the pro-life cause!!!
Since it's still freezing in Hell and I liked BTO's profile photo so well, I decided to do one myself for all LStreet liberal readers.
McPappy: How do we know that YOU even made it past the seventh grade? I can't tell from your debating ability. I know, I know - it was a class they only offered to those that went on to higher education.
OK. I'll admit the Republicans did SOMETHING about abortion while they had the chance, but it wasn't much, was it?
McGill v Nelson in 2012?
How about some D candidates in 2010for
Gov
LT Gov
AG
Treas
Auditor
D-------> = Doofus Party
lol
A3.57: "D-------> = Doofus Party"
Har, har, har. You are so clever. I'll bet you laugh hysterically at booger jokes and have a recliner on your front porch don't you?
If Dems had a good case to make against the R's, they'd have candidates already filed, raising money and building their organizations.
The fact that they don't have any credible candidates speaks volumes that they offer nothing to the people of NE.
A4.11: Nah, it just speaks volumes about a state that is dominated by Republicans. Heck, the '60s didn't even happen here until the '70s.
This will hurt Tom White in particular. Without a strong showing of Obamarama voters (lefties/1st timers) he can't win. And these voters aren't turning out in the off-year when there are no competitive statewide elections.
And, they aren't gonna run to the polls to vote for a guy who trys to run to the right on issues like cap & trade.
Seniors will vote though...
And seniors are heavily against the healthcare bill--they know it is funded largely with $500 billion in Medicare cuts.
Their Battle cry: "Keep your grubby hands off my Medicare, Tom White."
Best Quote of the Week goes to BTO:
"Heck, the 60's didn't even happen here until the 70's."
How sad. How true.
Too Bad...
I will make this Too Easy for you...just do a web search for "medicaid fraud" you will find plenty of fraud fodder to digest.
BTO...You better use your private insurance whilst you still have it. The Kool-Aid you have been drinking is tainted my friend. The girls I've been hanging out with don't want Obamacare.
BTO--how can you justify locking in $1 trillion in NEW spending that raises taxes, mandates rules on employers (which likely will lead them to drop coverage and pay the smaller fine)when we're in a econ crisis--that is getting worse because of your party's failed policies.
Raising taxes during a recession--does that make sense to you?
Rssmussen poll shows 51% of voters want the rest of the 'stimulus' program cancelled.
hmmm....
This is what happens when the feds claim 50 jobs were created by purchasing one toro ride mower...
Listening Tom White?
Anon 4:27: it gets worse. That $500 billion cut in Medicare is only in the first 10 years, the first 4 of which will not go towards covering anyone. In other words, seniors are sacrificing for nothing in the first 4 years. If you look at the 10 year period from when the program begins in earnest, 2014 if it's passed in 2010, the cuts to Medicare are actually $800 billion. But that's assuming that the Democrats are actually going to cut Medicare. Remember that the Democrats once accused Republicans of slashing Medicare when they were only trying to limit the growth of Medicare. The Republicans caved. Ain't no way on God's green Earth that the Democrats are actually going to cut the first dollar from Medicare. Ben Nelson is going to be buying a pig in a poke if he votes for cloture. Obamacare will either cut Medicare benefits by some gargantuan amount or add to the deficit by some gargantuan amount or both and nobody has any idea what is going to happen. This is beyond irresponsible.
Nebraskans are notorious for voting against their own best interests. We're seeing the results of term limits in the Legislature, seniors don't want anyone touching their "socialized" medicine yet rant about everything getting socialized, farmers and ranchers rant about everything being socialized as they cash their subsidy checks ... what a bunch of damned hypocrites.
1/3rd: I've found that a lot of what is on the internet was placed there by fools. Most of it wouldn't make it through the 1st round of a peer review. And I've seen some of those girls you hang out with, hope they're enjoying the distillers grains from the ethanol plants.
A5.01: Don't believe everything Glen Beck tells ya.
BTO,
I seem to think that ND & Montana aren't all that blue of states. Maybe a little more Dems than Nebraska but not much. Yet they seem to have statewide dems elected. How can you continue to support your state party leadership when they haven't fielded jack sh%t for candidates for statewide office. The NDP is a fricking joke.
Thanks to Senator Nelson I will be switching my party status from a Democrat to an Independent. I voted for him in 2006 but I will volunteer to help him get unelected.
If the NDP had a credible case to make, they'd have candidates--period.
They don't--that's why they have no candidates.
Pretty simple.
Total lack of excitement from progrssives in NE2. Very bad news for White.
Prediction-----> A week after the healthcare conference report passes the House next year, TW will finally tell reporters he would have voted against it.
So you would have voted against it after you voted for it, eh Tom?
Goodbye.
They'll also ask Tom in the same interview if he still supports the Obama economic plan ... since unemployment has hit 10.5% in Jan 2010.
When is TW gonna attack again about new missions at Offutt?
He tries to aim at Terry but only hits Nelson.
Keep it up, TW. BN couldn't care less about your campaign--the dirty little secret is he really hopes you lose.
Bought and paid for ...
NEA endorses White. White votes against freezing state ed aid next year.
Bought and paid for by the teachers union--who want more $$$ when everyone else is having to take cuts.
No guts, Tom.
Looks like the feedbacks took off here while I was dealing with Regent McClurg going over to the dark side at Varner Hall. Right to Life Voter: I met with Sen. Nelson in DC on Wednesday and Sen. Johanns on Tuesday. Nebraska Right to Life is working with both of our pro-life senators to ensure that Reid's excuse for abortion language gets fixed Stupak-style. Check our Facebook page over the weekend for our take on the cloture vote on motion to proceed.
THe US is on its way to becoming an Atheist, secular progressive society. We will attack organized religon more and more, traditional family will disappear, the gay lifestyle will be an accepted way of life and will be more and more prominent, the welfare state expands, taxes increase, Obama will be treated like a king, cloning, abortion, enthuasia, in vitro fertizilation will increase, their will be no limits on media, more and more nudity, filthy language, brutal violence will be shown, our civil discourse will be less polite, there will be less respect, a generation of kids will be hooked on meth, facebook, iphones, birth control...........!
A8:38: OK Glen Beck, what the hell are you doing trolling blogs here in Nebraska?
"THe US is on its way to becoming an Atheist, secular progressive society."
I would much rather be that than a regressive theocracy.
How is organized religion under attack right now? Are you talking about the mythical "war on christmas"?
Whats wrong with gay marriage? In whatever religion you choose to follow, marriages by the state are not recognized by God anyway, only marriages by the church are. Gay marriage has no bearing on you and your God then. BTW, its a little known secret, but Jesus Christ was a liberal, think about it.
I could pick apart the rest of your non-sensical ramblings but
Right-Wing Professor: Why are the programs underfunded? I suppose it's all about priorities... And the federal programs are way more efficient than private insurers in their delivery and administration costs.
One Out in the Third: What do you call it when private health insurers come up with bs reasons to deny coverage to their enrolled who have paid premiums for years and then have the misfortune to get hurt or sick? And they spend (waste) a lot of time and $$$ doing so.
Too Bad: the federal government is NOT more efficient than private insurance. Most of the administrative cost of Medicare is hidden in other departments: collection of fees is in the IRS, very little is spent on advertising because, you know, it's mandatory, and of course, there's the $65 billion lost each year in Medicare fraud that we'll never see again because the government only grudgingly goes after it.
As for your second point, if that is a problem, why not pass a one sentence law to fix it? Why does the entire healthcare system need to be overhauled.
Senator Nelson loves straddling fences that would crush the tender bits of other men.
Wow - from the GOP perspective it is the end of the world as we know it. Dogs and cats living together.
And whether you think it is all George W.'s fault or BO is the one to blame - the one constant is Lee Terry. We need a change for Nebraska - we can do better.
Julie, you do realize that once government gets into the insurance business all it takes is a majority to make it required coverage. Just look at the use of Plan B. Ben needs to kill this now!!
Well, it looks like Nelson is voting for cloture. Big mistake. Thus endeth the political career of Ben Nelson.
Ben Nelson satisfies his Democratic Leadership, by allowing the vote.
He then tells Nebraska that he is just voting debate, not endorsing a plan or opposing a plan.
When the Democrats have enough votes to approve, then Nelson will vote No.
He helped get the Democrat bill passed by moving it forward but then votes NO to appeal to his Nebraska voters.
We must stop the use of any tax dollars for abortions including salaries. A state or federal employee should not be allowed to use their tax funded salary for an abortion.
According to a post on the American Spectator blog, "in 40 of 41 cases between the 106th and 110th Congress where there was a successful motion to proceed and a final Senate vote on a bill, the bill in question passed". The fact is, the motion to proceed is the crucial motion. When Nelson votes for it, he knows there is a high probability he's enabling passage of the bill. He should not be allowed to get away with this.
I pretty much have given up putting my faith in political leaders to uphold traditional values.
Let's face it, WE LOST THE CULTURE WAR.
Obama will usher in a new era of secular progressivism that will fundamentally change the United States;
Within a few years, you will see;
gay marriage
gay adoption
celebration of gay lifestyles
then we will start to see people with multiple wives or threesomes creeping into pop culture (Desperate Housewives, Modern Family, HBO, etc).
divorce will increase
birth control will increase
abortion will expand
embryonic stem cell research
cloning
government will replace families, religion, etc and will create a bigger, bloated welfare state that we will all depend on more and more
America's unique greatness will fade into the league of all nations, UN, political correctness, multiculturalism
Quit politics! The battle is in your own life, in each person, in your soul, take care of your business in your life and don't let the world corrupt you.
We can't change the culture through politics, its a lost battle, the Liberals have won. Now, we just have to practice our principles more in our own lives which will take new forms of courage in this environment.
Democrats = party of death, moral decay
What happened to my party. The GOP my father taught me about was for lower taxes, limited and efficient government, and staying out of peoples lives. Now we want to be the morality, censorship, party of forced religion.
I could care less if gays get married. How the hell does that affect me? Why do I care what people do behind the doors of thier own home. As long as your not hurting anyone I couldn't care less what you do.
Why do I care if your Christian, Muslim, Atheist, or Wiccan? I know what I am and what I believe.
Worry about yourself people. I don't care if there are gays making out on Dondge street 24/7. What does it matter?
The far right Christian fundamentalists of my party disgust me.
If they are attractive gay women I don't mind them kissing 24/7 on dodge street!!
Sen Nelson states he wont slam the door so Nebraskans wont have a voice in the healthcare debate!!!!
WHAT!!!!!??????
He just slamed the door on the Nebraskan voice!!!!! Has he not noticed that a great majority of Nebraskans want a defeat in Reed's bill????
Sen. Nelson.... I am a Republican and have voted for you twice.... YOU JUST LOST MY VOTE!
This will not hurt Ben Nelson at all.
Nelson will vote for cloture, thus satisfying the most leftwing Democratic leaders. Socialists will cheer Nelson. Then Nelson will vote against the bill when his vote doesn't count, and he will return to Nebraska where he will say, "I always hated that horrible bill" and Nebraska voters will believe him because Nebraska voters will swallow anything that comes out of the mouth of that self serving lump.
Nelson long ago sold Nebraskans on the myth of a Conservative Democrat; the same Nebraskans who love the inherent failings of a Unicameral.
Nebraskans are the most poltically retarded voters on earth and they will eat anything that Nelson feeds them. He slops them like hogs and they love him for it.
Isn't Nelson a lobbiest for big insurance? I heard Reid stripped out of the bill wording that hurt insurance companies in return for Nelson's vote.
Ewwww, Julie Albin is commenting here, yuck!
So Blah Blah Blah just admits the GOP is not the Party of values!
(how about this value: let me keep my money)
I wouldn't have phrased it the same way the writer did a few comments ago but I agree that there is a definite sense that our country has "gone off the rails", if you will.
Traditional marriage is the foundation, the building block of a society. Once you destroy that, then there will be negative consequences. So, yeah, I don't care what people do in their private lives, but as a member of the larger society, I will be affected.
Take for instance, divorce, birth-control. There is plenty of evidence that suggests this has a negative impact on marriage, family life, etc. We see a rise in single mothers, an increase in illegitmacy, an increase in poverty, crime, youth violence, etc.
Can we promote traditional moral values in the public square, through government? The GOP was once a way to do that. I believe now, the country has changed so much (pro-choice Republicans for example, Log Cabin Republicans, etc) that its a losing battle.
We are at the beginning of a radical new society where secular, liberal welfare state will be dominant. You can have all your freedom, no restrictions to your personal happiness but society will suffer.
Don't worry. If all you worry warts just stick to reading your Bibles, praying to your God, and living clean lives, you will get to heaven. Everybody else can go to hell and they can't drag you with 'em, so what's the big beef?
The hypocricy here is stifling. All of you wingbats screamed for Nelson to vote for "motions to proceed" on every America-damaging policy George Bush put forward. Remember the bile spouted here over the Iraq resolutions and the tax cuts? You all swore you'd beat him in 2006 if he didn't support Bush. Well, for the most part he did, and then when you took your best shot at him you got your clock cleaned.
Nebraskans believe Ben Nelson because his is ONE OF THEM. They see him at the grocery store, the Furniture Mart, Main street in McCook, on the Midwest flight to and from DC and they LIKE him.
This vote will make Nelson stronger - he will have AGAIN had a major impact on the key issues passing through congress -singlehandedly doing more than the other four doofuses representing us have done collectively.
Keep wishing your wishes and you will end up like Pete Ricketts - poorer and maybe in baseball.
Most Nebraskans - not the ones posting here - want a fail and level playing field. They hate big government and big corporations. Nelson represents them. And will do so as long as he wishes.
Senator Nelson (D-Nebraska) voted for cloture while Senator Johanns (R-UnitedHealth) joined Cogressman Smith (R-Aetna), Congressman Fortenberry (R-Humana), and Congressman Terry (R-Cigna) in voting to filibuster. The motion to begin debate passes!!!
Well, whaddaya know? Even Lieberman had a moment of santity!
Santitiy? What the heck is that? Sanity ... sanity.
Anon 11:26
You have lost the culture war. People saw what the "religious right" er, wrong, wanted to do to America and voted it out of office. Apparently people dont want religious leaders being political leaders as well, if they did then they would move to Iran.
Anon 5:53pm
Your an idiot.
"Take for instance, divorce, birth-control. There is plenty of evidence that suggests this has a negative impact on marriage, family life, etc."
Really? Divorce has a negative impact on marriage?!? What great insight you must have!!!
I just read the article in the OWH about you Jean Stothert, nice going. BTW, there is a way to anonymously forward e-mails, you just erase the senders address.
If you think Ben Nelson is one of "them", referring to being a real normal, down to earth Nebraskan, ten I wish I was just like him! I know my husband and kids would have a blast hunting Turkey and four wheeling on property that includes a beautiful home that comes with a cleaning service-this would get me to go there too!
A cleaning lady at my other 2 houses would help me ebjoy life a lot more too! Millions in the bank for retirement would also be nice. Yeah, Ben Nelson is just like us.
If you want an example of a real person in elected office, look to Lee Terry. He gets blamed all the time for being to normal, remember all the Eschies that said he should get a tailor instead of buying off the rack? I bet Lee Terry didn't buy an identical wardrobe for Washington when he got elected. Remember Ben saying that he made life easier by buying 2 of each suit so he didn't have to worry about carrying a bag on the airplane?
Ben Nelson may be a solid Nebraskan, but he is far from an example of the average Nebraskan. He is much more an example of a wealthy Nebraskan. Maybe that's why he had that fundraiser for Tom White last August.
Ben Nelson and Tom White probably use the same tailor and keep their millions in the same bank!
Pro-Life Voter & Pro-Life Democrat:
"Allow me to correct the erroneous assertions by some that this massive bill can now emerge from the Senate with only the support of a simple majority. In fact, there is at least one 60-vote hurdle in the bill's future path, and probably more than one. Moreover, should a bill actually emerge from the Senate, it cannot be sent to the president unless and until a majority of the House of Representatives votes to pass exactly the same bill."
Douglas Johnson
Legislative Director
National Right to Life Committee
Sen. Nelson continues to state that the abortion language must be fixed to his satisfaction. There is the ability to hammer throughout and at the end with cloture. I have this bad habit of listening to Doug Johnson at NRLC, Neb Right to Life's parent organization, over any other lobbying entity in DC. I have worked closely with Doug and his NRLC staff throughout this Senate process and through the House vote on Stupak a couple weeks ago. We don't have our heads in the sand over Sen. Nelson and are working with both Sen. Nelson and Sen. Johanns throughout this debate.
Julie,
I must respectfully disagree with you. Once the government runs health care then the debate is over. Abortion language can be inserted anytime afterward. Do you really think liberals like Pelosi will give up on providing abortion coverage. Incrementalism is their vehicle to socialized medicine. I have never seen a liberal back down on abortion. Maybe I'm wrong.
Get use to it people!
Abortion, the killing of innocent babies inside the womb will increase!
Gay marriage, adoption, all sorts of unconventional living arrangements, divorces will be more common
Human cloning on its way!
Rapid consumerism.
Our society is in the process of attacking itself!
politics is a game, a joke. Corruption abounds! Awash in big money...
I wouldn't listen to the national right-to-life organization either. If they think the senate bill can't pass the house then they are idiots. The senate can pass this today. The bill will then go to some behind-closed-doors commitee where the pro-lifers will get rolled and voilà , not only will elective abortion be covered by the government but non-elective taxes for abortion will be exacted from everyone. Obama will be more than happy to sign it. This is a done deal. Doug Johnson is whistling past the graveyard if he says otherwise.
Democrats = socialism, abortion, sodomy, divorce, birth control, higher taxes, more and more government in your lives, ridicule of organized religion, etc....SECULAR PROGRESSIVE NATION is here!!!!!!
THE SKY IS FALLING!
THE SKY IS FALLING!!
THE SKY IS FALLING!!!
Geesh!
Ben Nelson SOLD OUT!!!!! A vote to end the fillibuster was a vote for this failure of a healthcare bill.
I wonder if Nelson's phone will be off the hook again on monday? Seems he doesn't listen to his constituents anyways!!! VOTE ON NELSON!!!!!!
Anon 944am:
Do most Nebraskans have fundraisers at Madonna concerts? Do they swear at people while walking across a street? Do they shirk their responsibilities to others (think earmarks)? Do they sleep on the couch in their offices? Do they all read RNC talking points over breakfast? Do real Nebraskans pass off the work of others as their own? Sure, Lee Terry is a regualr guy, just like you and me.
I am confused, Little Lu, do you think that Members of Congress should do nothing but troll for earmarks? Do you think they should risk violating House Ethics Rules(remember the House and Senate have different Ethics thresholds, the Senate having none), just to "bring home some bacon"? The road to Hell is paved with good intentions and Pelosi's only intention was to tell her Democrat followers that they should go ahead and aggressively seek earmarks because she was going to fix things so no one would get into trouble, right after the deadline expires for any Republicans to submit any.
As far as the rest of your claims, yes, all of those things make lee Terry "just an average guy". I bet that he would have loved to have parked a Jag outside his Congressional Office in D.C., but since House rules bar the use of a driver, there would be no one to drive it anywhere because the Congressman comes back to his District every week-cuz that's where his constituents live.
Keep pointing out little things about Lee Terry. It just makes you look petty.
As for something that voters will care about? Let me know when you find bribe money in his freezer or tax evasion in the Bahamas.
BTO,
Clearly you dont understand the gravity of the situation!
The Liberals are coming!!!
The Liberals are coming!!!
The Liberals are coming!!!
This is the end of the world as we know it. All of a sudden we are going to start forcing teenage girls to get pregnant, and then start forcing them to have abortions, all because we can!!! We're going to make little Johnny have sex with the family cat cause we're liberals and we force debauchery on innocent children! We're going to take your house away from you and give it to the illegal aliens (from Mars) so they have a place to live! Drug use and abuse will be required in America, those with low levels of THC in their system will be forced to smoke ganja for hours on end!
Hide the children the liberals are coming!
When Democrats are in charge- what happens. Let's look at the modern Democratic Party record;
The welfare, War on Poverty=killed initative, got rid of the father, crammed poor people in projects, welfare rolls sweared, illegitmacy skyrocketed
cultural liberalism - just turn on the TV-MTV, sex everywhere. thanks for killing the innocence of the younger generation
1973 Roe v Wade = result = 50 million babies killed
sexual liberalism = divorce, birth control, AIDS, STD's, breakdown of the family (need we have to have safe haven laws because the traditional family is destroyed)
economic liberalism = ObamaCare will have the government in 1/5th of the economy. I'm in favor of some oversight and regulation but this is too much
multiculturalism = don't offend anyone except Christians
Europe as the model of the secular progressive nation. No one goes to church. No Christmas, no public displays of faith, take down the crucifix, etc.
we're gonna be like France, Sweden, Great Britain, Canada....
Way to encourage people to speak out against the police union, Jean Stothert!
People are not stupid.
Rasmussen Poll--favor or oppose the Dem health plan working its way through Congress...
Favor 38%
Oppose 56%
The numbers will get worse for the D's on health care as more details of the 2,000 page Senate bill become public...
Still like it, Tom W?
And the ###s will also continue to get worse for the D's as their 'stimulus' and economic program (endorsed by White) continues to fail.
Unemployment in Nov.------->10.4%?
So... All of you that don't like the "Obamacare" plan can go have a Tea Party, refuse to pay the premiums on the "public option" and go to jail. If enough of you do it, you'll break the system because the jails are already full of pot smokers. There won't be room for you.
Imagine ... tens of millions of people refusing to do what the government mandates and there's nothing they can do about it.
Here's another thought. Legalize medicinal marijuana in every state. A lot of Liberals would be stoned, watching cartoons on TV, and eating Cheetos. It would leave you guys totally free to screw up our government all by yourselves.
Hey! It might just work!
BTO--I have friends that use a Naturopath for health care. They're completely satisfied with the kind of preventive treatments they get. It is cash--insurance won't cover it.
So, under Obama/White, they'll have to spend $10,000 for an insurance policy (that still won't cover Naturopathy), and then continue to pay cash for the health care they really want.
------->just one example why the coersive approach is wrong. There are many others.
Also, on pot smoking, I assumed that's what the D's were doing when they came up with the bill.
Brian...a.k.a "Chicken Little"
As each day goes by...more and more Americans are jumping off the Obamacare Bandwagon. Rasmussen's most recent poll puts you and welfare mothers in the minority. The latest numbers say something like 38 percent are still suffering Kool-Aid inebriation and want Obamacare.
You...Ben Nelson and the welfare mothers are the only ones left in Nebraska that want to ride the pony. Oh...You...Ol' Earmark and the welfare mothers were the only Nebraskans that have been riding the pony from the get-go.
1/3rd,
If you've put me in the same boat as Sen. Nelson, you haven't been paying attention.
BTO--you guys recruit any candidates today?
Wonder what kind of X-Mas bonus Jim Rogers will get....
lol
So, the Senate got the healthcare bill past its first hurdle. Now comes the hard part. All those that don't like something about it are going to actually get up off their dead asses and do what we overpay them to do ... debate, make amendments, argue, make motions, vote ... Sen. Johanns could just sit on his duff and repeat ad nauseum, "No ... no ... no," or spew RNC talking points, or he can earn his keep and go to work.
That's how democracy works folks. If it's good enough for Baghdad and Kabul, it should be good enough for the U.S.A.
Anon 12:21
Last I checked there are more GOP reps in jail right now than Dem reps. The point about the earmarks was Lee's embarrassing twisting in the wind - I'm for them! I hate them! Nancy is being mean! Call Ben Nelson! Wait I'm for them again. Wait they contribute to the deficit (they do not)! At least he's not as bad as Hagel who asked for so much pork he forgot what he asked for and let his staff take over the process.
As for Lee being a regular guy - do you know anything about his cable television service?
And for the other anon who equates Democrats with Divorce: hmmm. Was Newt a D when he handed his first wife divorce papers when she was on her death bed? was he a D when he cheated on his second wife with a staffer? I guess Mark Sanford wasn't really in Argentina - he was at a meeting of Democrats Anonymous.
Divorce is not a partisan issue you tip.
Seriously, get a grip folks. The GOP is the true master of the do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do style of governing. To blame democrats for the decay of America's moral fiber is to ignore reality - or at least what's going on in your party. After all, Nixon was the only president ever forced from office no?
Shoe Salesman obviously missed the 90's with that whole Clinton don't-I-get-one-free-grope? thing. This from the party of the feminists.
I have no idea what cable television plan Congressman Terry has. What does it matter, as long as he is paying his bills?
What kind of a cable plan do you have?
I assume that the Congressman has Cox since he lives in Omaha, maybe Qwest satelite, are there even any other choices in Omaha?
What pisses you Republicans off about Clinton so much is that he was having extramarital sex ... with a member of the OPPOSITE sex!
Michael Levine, a national radio show host that airs on KKAR was blasting Ben Nelson today. Wow, it was amazing, Levine called Nelson a liar, a fraud, a fake, you name it.
Hey all, I know I'm new here but what's with all the stuff about Newt and the "Big Dog." I feel like Rip Van Winkle. Man that talk makes me feel old. There's plenty of political humor right here, right now. With apologies to none I will chime in from time to time.
For those who like stats here's a few "fun facts." Nebraska's total population is just over 1.7 million. About 1/2 of 1 percent of U.S. pop. Alaska, the state has a total pop. of less than 700,000, a little over the Metro area count. So what makes Ben and Sara relevant by any stretch of the imagination? As a life long Nebraskan I have to tell ya, I'm feelin a little "over-
represented." On second thought with Johanns, Terry, Smith and Fortenberry...nah, no way.
It was good to see the Benator cast a vote for his retirement after he completes this term. It's just too bad he isn't going to be on the 2010 ballot so he could get a headstart.
Well, BTO, it all depends on what the meaning of 'sex' is, doesn't it? And besides, Clinton may have been getting it extramaritally, but was he getting it intramaritally?
After reading through all of these comments today, I have to say I am utterly disgusted with the far right views shown here.
How, in 2009, can someone say that birth control pills are bad? How can some say research that will likely cure a host of diseases is bad?
All of the people who commented on the horrors of gay marriage and gay adoption should be prepared to defend those very same comments years from now when we all look back and view this as a civil rights issue.
As a Republican, I would love to see this crazy faction leave my party. Republicans are supposed to be the party of less government-- less government is the last thing these people want.
Bus Driver...
Despite our insignificance...Ben and Sarah both know the significant of "Precious" - the power of a vote. Too bad "we the insignificant" don't use our power of the vote a little more. Kind of shows you why the Dems like the caucus...it eliminates the average folks just that much more. Pogo's #1 Axiom lives - "We have met the enemy and he is us."
One Out,
You get no argument from me with regard to the value of how precious my vote is. I've been casting them for almost 40 yrs. with maybe two misses (both primaries.) I do however question how a couple of small time pols can be allowed to drive the national agenda, while at the same time claiming to be doing their best for their constitutants.
When Ben says he can't vote for a health care bill that ignors rural communities he is basically saying that "new economies" which will save the overall system will leave our small towns in its wake. His research might bear this out, however my research, a mother in law who has traveled from a small town to Omaha for over 30 yrs for medical care, shows that "advanced' medical care never was able to make it in Small Town USA. You just can't get high salaried doctors to go live in Beaver Crossing-- there just aren't enough places to spend their money.
As for dems and caucuses, well that would take a long time to sort out. I will say that at least locally in 2008, those darn dems showed a lot more interest in their voting rights than did their rep. brothers and sisters.
time to give thanks ...
to those D's who've thrown their hat into the ring for Gov...
oops...forgot...there aren't any.
D---->doofus party
Anon 1:07,
You are a one trick pony, a broken record, a ... doofus.
Hey BTO--just two words for you:
Happy Thanksgiving!
Suggestion-----> Black Friday, typically, is a slow news day--would be a good p.r. opp for NDP to roll-out a candidate. The following week is also good. Got any?
Anon 11:08,
What have you done to promote world peace, eradicate poverty, or stand up for anyone else's rights today? Oh, right ... you've repeated your same lame joke again, and again, and again ...
Good job, Brownie!
BTO--tell us what you did today to make the state a better place to live...
And I wouldn't include recruiting a Dem candidate as part of that!
Anon 4:07,
I saved the world ... anonymously. Prove that I didn't.
BTO---r u 1 of the 56%?
Research 2000 poll out of reg vtrs as to whether they "definately or probably" will vote on 2010:
Repub 81%
Indie 65%
Demo 56%
Looks like there's alot of enthusiasm among Demos...
10:21,
I always vote. Too many gave their lives so that I could.
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